Want Money Got Money with Sam Kamani

8: Using South East Asia as a test market with guest George Padin

August 11, 2020 George Padin, Sam Kamani
Want Money Got Money with Sam Kamani
8: Using South East Asia as a test market with guest George Padin
Chapters
Want Money Got Money with Sam Kamani
8: Using South East Asia as a test market with guest George Padin
Aug 11, 2020
George Padin, Sam Kamani

In this episode I explore what it takes to build and start your own company in South East Asia.🇸🇬🇵🇭 🇻🇳🇲🇾🇮🇩

I interview George Padin a true entrepreneur, founder and hustler. He employs a large number of people in the Phillipines spread over two companies.

https://www.abstract.ph/ (Design agency specially catering to Startups and VC funds)
and
https://1216media.com/ (Media production agency)

In this episode George shares about starting out from humble origins, raising capital to start his companies, what makes him a good founder and much more.

Please subscribe and share this episode with other entrepreneurs who are looking at expanding into the South East Asian market.

Here are some of the links mentioned in the episode 👇
Book recommendation: https://www.amazon.com/Ride-Lifetime-Lessons-Learned-Company/dp/0399592091

Podcast recommendation: https://gimletmedia.com/shows/startup

https://www.linkedin.com/in/george-padin-22937215b/

Show Notes Transcript

In this episode I explore what it takes to build and start your own company in South East Asia.🇸🇬🇵🇭 🇻🇳🇲🇾🇮🇩

I interview George Padin a true entrepreneur, founder and hustler. He employs a large number of people in the Phillipines spread over two companies.

https://www.abstract.ph/ (Design agency specially catering to Startups and VC funds)
and
https://1216media.com/ (Media production agency)

In this episode George shares about starting out from humble origins, raising capital to start his companies, what makes him a good founder and much more.

Please subscribe and share this episode with other entrepreneurs who are looking at expanding into the South East Asian market.

Here are some of the links mentioned in the episode 👇
Book recommendation: https://www.amazon.com/Ride-Lifetime-Lessons-Learned-Company/dp/0399592091

Podcast recommendation: https://gimletmedia.com/shows/startup

https://www.linkedin.com/in/george-padin-22937215b/

George Padin: [00:00:00] I think, If anybody listening to this who are in the product space or who are in the investment space, actually, the Philippines is becoming a very, very interesting market to be in like in Southeast Asia, because we have a hundred million plus 

[00:00:15] population. And we have like 70 million plus Facebook users. we have pre pandamic more than 20 million online shopsers. and there are like only two major eCommerce platforms, like similar to Amazon, so it's like when you roll out like a product, an app here, it could really achieve scale.

[00:00:37] And you could read experiments here. And plus we're like an English speaking country. 

[00:00:41] no, we're very kind. So even if your app sucks, we're like quite tolerant. Yeah. So our market is very interesting, so it could be like a jump like, ah, Trampoline. If that's what you call it, where you actually pass it in our market.

[00:00:55] And then if it's successful here, you can start rolling out. 

[00:00:57] Hello, dreamers and action takers. Welcome to another episode of one money. Got money. I'm your host, Sam Kamani today I'm interviewing George Padin, a true serial entrepreneur from Philippines. He shares his journey of starting from humble beginnings to building two really successful businesses that operate in Southeast Asia. He is no stranger to tech startups. His. 

[00:01:25]agencies, support tech startups, all our Southeast Asia. And

[00:01:31]Today, he shares with us. The realities of starting and operating a business in an emerging market. So without any further ado, let's get into it.

[00:01:43]Sam Kamani: [00:01:43] welcome to the show, George. for some of our audience who don't know a lot about you, can you tell us a bit about what you are up to these days and just a bit about your background? That'd be great. 

[00:01:56] George Padin: [00:01:56] Hi, Sam. so thank you for inviting me through to this podcast of yours. I've heard the trailer, it's actually very, very interesting.

[00:02:04]your trailers are a great hook. It's like, I want to listen to the entire episode. 

[00:02:09] Sam Kamani: [00:02:09] Thank you. 

[00:02:09] George Padin: [00:02:09] Yeah, thank you.  in terms of my background. So I've been in the tech industry for close to a decade now. I run a tech agency and we're based in the Philippines. And we're in an emerging country, obviously, and what's interesting is more than 90% of our revenue at this regenerate them outside of the Philippines.

[00:02:30] And it's working with venture backed startups, mostly pre product market fit. So that's like a very long story, short version of the interesting things that we do, but we built a lot of, really interesting apps. with really interesting founders, mostly within the Asia Pacific region. 

[00:02:50]Sam Kamani: [00:02:50] Yep. No, that, that sounds really cool.

[00:02:53] How did you get started? Is like, did you, in your, when you're studying you're a student, did he knew you wanted to grow up one day and start an agency? Or how did you end up at the agency? 

[00:03:05] George Padin: [00:03:05] I think, that, that industry is like  the last thing that I would have probably  expected or dreamt of being in.

[00:03:13]cause even  when I was in high school and there was this like coding class, I'm not proud of this, but, I would bring a USB, , and discovery , the code of the classmates that I add, who were good at programming. And then basically that was illegal. It's not illegal. Per se the way you call it in school, but that wasn't, that was thing basically.

[00:03:34] No, 

[00:03:36] Sam Kamani: [00:03:36] you don't need to use. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:03:39] George Padin: [00:03:39] So before I just copy pasted the code. So tech really was the last thing that, that was, I thought I would be involved in, but I ended up working for a tech company. and then ended up after years of working in that company, ended up running their entire business development.

[00:03:55] So I was working very closely with really smart developers, really, really good designers. And we were working with really big local brands here, big corporates. And then, I was doing like international partnerships. So that, that was the beginning of my exposure. Yeah. And then, eventually I ventured on my own, and started a tech company.

[00:04:16] I'm actually also involved in other industries like the media business. But, I want to focus on talking about the tech company, because I think the most interesting, especially right now, 

[00:04:28] Sam Kamani: [00:04:28] Absolutely with everything happening with the Covid and how the whole world is changing. And tech is bringing people closer and it's enabling people to work.

[00:04:36] That's one another, despite the limitations of the physical world and all that. So know that is very true.   so moving on from being the business development manager, how did you get about starting a, agency or being a founder yourself? What sort of inspired you or what led to that? I 

[00:05:00] George Padin: [00:05:00] think, yeah, it's like, So I want to talk a little bit about like my dad, like the history of my dad.

[00:05:05] So my dad is like really the smart engineer. and he was like a, one of the first engineers to actually build like an earthquake proof building in the entire Philippines, but he was very, very intrepreneurial. but I think the entrepreneurship life really just was very hard on him. So that meant that our life really was like a roller coaster ride where, when it's high, it's like, like we had money and when it's down, it's like we would go hungry at times.

[00:05:31] It was the journey. And it's like, we moved a lot of time. It's like, We moved probably close to 40 times in my entire lifetime. So just by moving houses around the Philippines, 

[00:05:45] Sam Kamani: [00:05:45] around in the same city or even different cities 

[00:05:49] George Padin: [00:05:49] to these different cities. So, the Philippines is an archipelago, meaning we moved to different cities in different islands, different languages sometimes.

[00:05:57] Yeah. So just to make the time, I would have preferred in a certain village that we just moved into. I would have to leave them and I would have to make new friends in this new city. So I think at a very young age, you get to learn adaptability. And an entrepreneurship. Adaptability is like, you know, your number one, it should be your number one scale because entrepreneurship is really, really tough.

[00:06:25]you're dealing with different people. you're trying to raise funding and all that. I love that. So at a very young age, I was exposed to that kind of adaptability. And my dad, always was, I was like his Robin. he was the Batman when whatever he could get his hands on Dussel there was this one time I was selling with him, cooking wares, really overpriced cooking wares.

[00:06:50] You know, like non stick pan and stick pan. But, I was the demo boy, while, while he was talking, 

[00:06:57] Sam Kamani: [00:06:57] we went to, you were like the George Foreman. 

[00:07:02] George Padin: [00:07:02] Yeah. And then these are like all true story that like, basically it's like we would go to different, like barangay halls. Like local governments here. And we would gather all of them and I would be the one cooking, the pancakes selling or non stick pan.

[00:07:14] And sometimes it would actually stick. And the only thing that I, that I wish during that time was it would have the power of invisibility because I really just wanted to disappear. Like, Oh, I it's our nonstick pan, like, you know, living this like pancakes. So, but we sold a lot. so, I ended up having money to buy new leather shoes, when I was in high school.

[00:07:37] So things like that. 

[00:07:38]Sam Kamani: [00:07:38] that was sort of your intro to entrepreneurship and the uncertainty that entrepreneurs go through. but you know, that teaches so much, that is the valuable lessons that you cannot learn in any school or university. You can only learn on the street. 

[00:07:58] George Padin: [00:07:58] Exactly, exactly.

[00:08:01] The awkwardness, the. Yeah, the awkwardness of business. It's like, I think when you get involved in entrepreneurship, you just gotta get used to laughing at really awkward situations because there's going to be a lab. 

[00:08:12]Sam Kamani: [00:08:12] Yeah. So, then you decided, did you, yes, I'm still trying to, follow your journey  and  setting up your own company or being a founder.

[00:08:23] Did you get together with some friends or did he do it all on your own or did he get some help from your parents? what was the first step. 

[00:08:31] George Padin: [00:08:31] Sure. So really it's like a, when, when we ventured out, I came from the background of really just like running a business development of a company.

[00:08:40] So it's, it's had its advantages. Where I had built, like the genuine confidence of actually starting out on my own. Cause I think it's only you, who knows if you have like the genuine confidence and the fake confidence, the people outside country that like, if that's a genuine confidence or not. And, I knew that I was ready because I had the genuine confidence that, Hey, you know what?

[00:09:05] I think I can start out on my own. And I think a lot of people really just like, I think suffer hardcore or have like. So much harder time in entrepreneurship when, when they jumped out and they really just don't have the experience yet. I think you need to go through the experience. Like I think people underestimate the power of experience.

[00:09:27] So when I, we ventured out on my own, I had all of the experience that I needed to actually. Have a better understanding of how to actually create demand, how to actually price, how to actually like sell it to people or how to actually manage talent. So these are the things that you skip and then you'll be surprised, like a, why are people quit?

[00:09:48] I think on me, like, why are customers not paying me? And then you have your right dramatic stuff. You know, I think it comes down to experience. So you've got to have genuine confidence and experience. 

[00:10:00] Sam Kamani: [00:10:00] Yup. And then you get a team together and you sold your services to your agency and then the rest is history.

[00:10:11] Did you need any initial capital or was it just cashflow positive from day one? 

[00:10:19]George Padin: [00:10:19] so in my case, I wanted to create that little bit of a buffer when, when I started dating agency. So I, I raised like, An okay. Amount of money. Yeah. An okay. Amount of money as a buffer, because even as a need agency, I think there's also that like product market fit phase, or you're trying to find product market fit.

[00:10:38] It's like, are people actually willing to buy into me and have them like, Have me build their products for them. how much are these guys actually willing to pay? So for me, that's like the product market fit phase, me trying to figure it out. So I need that like a little bit of a buffer there. So I could pay people actually like really talented co-founders and, really talented designers and developers.

[00:11:00] So that's what we did. So yes, we raised for the agency. 

[00:11:04] Sam Kamani: [00:11:04] Yep. Not that is, yeah, that is really good that you kept that buffer and that can save you a backend so many times 

[00:11:12] George Padin: [00:11:12] yeah. Cause I think that's also the challenge with people. It's like, I think a lot of. I found this out there, you get excited with an idea and then you try to bring in people and tell them, Hey, you're going to have equity and then everybody's going to go hungry.

[00:11:26] And then when it's getting fed and then you're going to start 

[00:11:28] Sam Kamani: [00:11:28] ghosting,

[00:11:32] George Padin: [00:11:32] and then you're going to start the ghost each other and not reply to each other. And then gonna ask surprise, like why everything fell apart? Like, duh, like everything fell apart because nobody's getting paid. It's unrealistic. They have families to feed. So I think you need to start without foundation of, I think everybody needs to get paid.

[00:11:52] Well, I teach to be sustainable. How do we get into product market fit? 

[00:11:58] Sam Kamani: [00:11:58] Absolutely. Yes. You say that without that? Yeah.  it's not going to go far. It's just like, you know, you have to ask yourself the question it's like, do you want to work for free? If the answer is no, then why would someone else would want to work for free?

[00:12:14] So that is the first question. so not that it's very good.  there are so many gurus and coaches out there. Teaching these days, especially on internet, teaching other people on how to start your own agency or how to be a founder of your own sort of, I dunno media agency or a decade agency or any such thing you go to a founder and R or a guru or a coach  like that and get some training or did you just jump in yourself?

[00:12:44] George Padin: [00:12:44] I think my experience working with a tech company, really, I was mentored by like, it's, American is from America, like the founder of that company. And I was just really working closely with him. And I think, that was like, kinda like a natural mentorship kind of thing. Well just being beside him all the time and all of like the big meetings, eventually I was like the one already leading the beat things and he would, he would not be attending anymore.

[00:13:10] I think that became my mentorship experience, but me buying of course from Lake salesgirl, I would never do that.

[00:13:21] I think that's their business model and they're not really actively running like actual businesses. So if you're looking for like mentors buy from Alec, I mean work for people for free, find like the people that you really admire and then try to figure out creatively how you could have. Then want you to have them have you, by your side, 

[00:13:41] Sam Kamani: [00:13:41] exactly.

[00:13:42] You learn from other people, you know, you just like, you know, kids learn from what their parents do instead of what their parents say. So you, you just learn by doing and learn by seeing what other people are doing. So that is such good insight. you know, yeah. It's like if you were starting today, From scratch.

[00:14:04] And you had to start in a market where you don't know anyone, because now you already have a lot of network and connections and, and all that. so if you are starting fresh, what would you do differently?

[00:14:20] George Padin: [00:14:20] It's a, that's a tough question. I think, I think because, Hey, I just want to relate this to like one of the things that they actually started, like a media company. So. Don't be like a lone Wolf. Don't be a solo founder. I think it's always great to find a coach. 

[00:14:42] Sam Kamani: [00:14:42] Oh, a hundred percent. I can. Not 

[00:14:44] George Padin: [00:14:44] who compliments your scale?

[00:14:45] Yes. so I have a cofounder who was actually very strong with operations and, strong in design and quality. cause I think if I was a solo founder, and running this agency, I would have, no, no. I think I would have, I would have people who are overweight then who are going to hate me.  so my cofounder actually is my balance on that side.

[00:15:07] He's just a pro people, pro max are making sure that everybody is happy. Everybody is like living sustainable lives, not overworked. So we have that great balance. So if you start, always start with a cofounder. 

[00:15:23]Sam Kamani: [00:15:23] Oh, that is such good advice. See, I mean, I just think that it's so good for men mental health, of any founder to have a cofounder that they can bounce ideas with, that they can relate with.

[00:15:36] And that, that can pick up the Slack if you are sick for a day or two or, or anything. Yeah. Oh, they 

[00:15:42] George Padin: [00:15:42] said, Oh, we should also compliment your skills. Like I think if everybody's just like, if the, both of you are business development and nobody actually knows how to run operations and you'll get the sound like a bunch of stuff and bring in a bunch of clients, like in the short term, and then all of those clients are going to be so unhappy and you're going to have to take every variable agency.

[00:16:03] Sam Kamani: [00:16:03] That is so true. No, that's not only. For an agency it's also true for any type of a startup. So you have, that is yeah.  super good advice that have a cofounder get a cofounder with complimentary skills. 

[00:16:21] George Padin: [00:16:21] Exactly. 

[00:16:22]Sam Kamani: [00:16:22] so just wanted to find out from you, what is your ask? What are you looking for?

[00:16:30] Is there anything you are looking for? Are you looking for customers? Are you looking for, I dunno, employees, to work for you, investors. Yeah. What are you looking for next? 

[00:16:41] George Padin: [00:16:41] Yeah. right now in, in the face of the business, really it's like, where. Actually very lucky that that the, the crisis has, had a very opposite effect on our business.

[00:16:55]because in our emerging country, the Philippines, We have actually seen a girl in the brick and mortar, big corporations who didn't believe in technology now, starting to invest in technology because they're seeing that, there's, they're finding themselves crash courses on how to use zoo

[00:17:23]from, from 90% of our revenue really generated outside of the Philippines, it's now starting to shift towards like, a lot of brick and mortar businesses here started to spend heavier on tech. So I'm very grateful, that 

[00:17:37] Sam Kamani: [00:17:37] yeah. That 

[00:17:38] George Padin: [00:17:38] you guys are. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So for me, my ask, I guess if, if I have to answer that question is really, Yeah, we're really focused on really targeting like venture backed startups around Asia Pacific region.

[00:17:54] We don't target, the U S part anymore because of the time zone difference. It's just so opposite that I think it affects their relationship. and also the Asia Pacific region is like more than big enough. 

[00:18:06] Sam Kamani: [00:18:06] It is, it is growing so fast. It is booming that, yeah, I think, you know, everyone has to find their own niche and has to find, and then that they can focus on and then you build more sort of resources in that area.

[00:18:22] that is super good. Is there any product that you are working on for yourself as in, like a tech product, like a SAS product or a mobile app or anything like that? 

[00:18:33] George Padin: [00:18:33] Yeah, we have a couple of  no ventures, really here. we're involved in like the coffee industry where we're trying to work towards helping the FNB industry as well, because like it's just massively affected it's on the verge of collapse.

[00:18:49]I don't know for other countries, but here it's on the verge of collapse because we just. I think we have one of the world's longest luck, Donna, like I think almost 150 days. Yeah. So a lot of businesses here in the FNB space really are just like, It's it's pretty hard because it was already even very hard.

[00:19:11] Brief. Yeah. Cashflow is slow for these guys, so yeah, we're trying to work towards just great thing solutions on that space because the existing incumbents as well, just like the online delivery space, it just takes so much commission that it doesn't make sense for a lot of these restaurants. 

[00:19:29] Sam Kamani: [00:19:29] That is very, very good.

[00:19:31] Yeah. Are you planning to just, bootstrap these projects or are you going and, what do you call, cooperating with a VC or are you going to raise funding or crowd funding or what's your plan 

[00:19:45] George Padin: [00:19:45] for these 

[00:19:46] Sam Kamani: [00:19:46] internal projects? 

[00:19:48] George Padin: [00:19:48] One of our venture activities preceded already, but I think we need to get it too certain stage for us before it's ready for us.

[00:19:56] Yeah. and then after the seed we could like, get it. To like the market really, and then try to reach some certain KPIs and then see, see from there. So that's the thing with startups. It's like, it's, it's a ton of risk. and it's also a ton of reward if you're able to pull it off, but at the same time you gotta stay very realistic.

[00:20:17] Like, do we have the resources to actually pull this off? Because development is freaking expensive. This sign is freaking expensive. 

[00:20:24] Sam Kamani: [00:20:24] The development design is. But at the same time, you don't forget about, you know, you still have to provide sales and customer service. Some startups have 80% of the team working in customer service because people need a lot more customer service than most people expect, especially for some SAS products that are like B to C space are very customer facing.

[00:20:48]that, yeah. so now that is. That gives us all. I'm sure. Anyone listening a lot more insight into, what you do. You run an agency in the tech vault, you run an agency in the media and you've got your, some of your own products. it's very good  to hear about your journey  How have you gotten inspiration from your father , and that prepared you to, you know, to be a founder, to be an entrepreneur, all that uncertainty of moving all the time and all that 

[00:21:18] George Padin: [00:21:18] adaptability, 

[00:21:20] Sam Kamani: [00:21:20] that was your training course

[00:21:25] George Padin: [00:21:25] can make, can I add a little light? Go ahead. Ask Bart. I think, If like anybody listening to this who are in the product space or who are in the investment space, actually, the Philippines is becoming a very, very interesting market to be in like in Southeast Asia, because we have like a hundred million plus like.

[00:21:45] Sam Kamani: [00:21:45] People 

[00:21:46] George Padin: [00:21:46] population. And we have like 70 million plus Facebook users we have pre pandamic more than 20 million online shopsers and there are like only two major like eCommerce platforms, like similar to Amazon, players here. So it's like when you roll out like a product, an app here, it could really achieve scale.

[00:22:09] And you could read experiments here. And plus we're like an English speaking country. 

[00:22:13] Sam Kamani: [00:22:13] Most people can speak English and to a certain extent and all that. So yeah, 

[00:22:19] George Padin: [00:22:19] no, we're very kind. So even if your app sucks, we're like quite tolerant.

[00:22:27] Sam Kamani: [00:22:27] Yeah. A lot, a lot of them, you know, go and look at the first version of. Facebook or Google or any of these it's always going to, you have to start somewhere. 

[00:22:38] George Padin: [00:22:38] Yeah. So our market is very interesting, so it could be like a jump like, ah, Trampoline. If that's what you call it, where you actually pass it in our market.

[00:22:47] And then if it's successful here, you can start rolling out. Yeah. Indonesia, Indonesia is super duper interesting as well. So Philippines is very interesting to start with and then expand in other Southeast Asian countries. Oh, a 

[00:23:00] Sam Kamani: [00:23:00] hundred percent. Couldn't agree. More. This last thing that is this all founders or investors who come on on the, and that is, the doctorate, right things.

[00:23:12] What is the bun book that you're reading right now? Or what book do you recommend others should read? 

[00:23:19]George Padin: [00:23:19] I'm, I'm reading the right of a lifetime, right? I'm the CEO of Disney Bob Iger. It's actually, yeah, it's actually really interesting because if you take a look at this need, they're just so diversified, like everywhere though.

[00:23:35] They talk like a very big hit during the crisis, the way they just manage that entire businesses is crazy. So that's the book I'm reading right now. I'm halfway there. What's the other question, 

[00:23:48] Sam Kamani: [00:23:48] the other, I mean, that's fine. That's I just needed one book recommendation and 

[00:23:52] George Padin: [00:23:52] biker. 

[00:23:53] Sam Kamani: [00:23:53] And also I like to,  find out what people are reading right now.

[00:23:57]the other one is that, is that a podcast that you listen to? 

[00:24:02] George Padin: [00:24:02] Dude, you should listen to, the startup by Gimlet media. It got up a Gimlet got acquired by Spotify, right? Gimlet the startup one. Okay. It's just so genuine. It's just so real. There's snow like sugarcoat on entrepreneurship. It's like, you're gonna.

[00:24:19]seed the guy, leading up podcasts. Talk about the anxieties that he had when trying to raise funding when trying to manage the startup, trying to find a cofounder. So yeah, if you really want like an inside look, listen to that podcast. 

[00:24:33] Sam Kamani: [00:24:33] Yep. Yeah, I have, I've been following their sort of editor and who's I think the same editor or producer or the same Dean behind this American life or something.

[00:24:42] Yeah, it's done. They've done lots of really, really? Yeah. Gimlet was very big before it got acquired. Very, very prestigious. A lot of people wanted to work for Gimlet in the hole. Set up podcasting space. Very, very good suggestion. And last question that is if time, money and resources was of no question, what would you build or what would you work on?

[00:25:15] George Padin: [00:25:15] no, I think, I think that's the last line. That's the next frontier that the billionaires are betting on. Right. It's like, okay, we got to build the infrastructure, on the RocketSpace and then let all of these other smaller startups venture and build on top of the infrastructure that we built. Like when Amazon built on top of like the.

[00:25:33] Postal services, infrastructure of delivery. So for me, maybe a rocket, I think it's the most interesting thing. If money wasn't a problem. And like all of the other resources, isn't the problem. Maybe just pursue the craziest thing that would make you look really cool. Right?  

[00:25:51] Sam Kamani: [00:25:51] yeah, exactly. You know, why not do something?

[00:25:54] What you 

[00:25:54] George Padin: [00:25:54] really want 

[00:25:55] Sam Kamani: [00:25:55] something interesting. 

[00:25:57] George Padin: [00:25:57] Yeah. Like what do you do for a living? I build rockets. Like nobody can be that money's not a province. Let's just do that. 

[00:26:06] Sam Kamani: [00:26:06] Yep. So then people can not say it's not rocket science and actually it is, that's what you're working on. 

[00:26:15] George Padin: [00:26:15] No, no, no. I think, I think that's more of the cool part.

[00:26:17] I think if I had like unlimited resources and it wasn't a problem, I think there's a lot of problems to be solved and just. Like creating opportunities for, a lot of poor people. Like even here in the Philippines, we have a lot of really like low income households here. it's it's it's yeah, it's very crazy.

[00:26:38] I think a lot can be done there because especially with, with the. Advancement of technology. it's not, it's not fair to say that. Hey, there's it opened up new opportunities. When, when the app store was created, it created new opportunities because developers who develop apps and design apps are being created new opportunities there.

[00:26:59]meaning when we're losing jobs here, job opportunities here because. There's new ones that are being created. No, you actually need to upscale because it's a totally different skills. So, I think the only way to help these guys is to really focus on creating programs that actually work towards grading and training them for jobs that are actually relevant for the future.

[00:27:25] So, yeah, I think a lot of. Education that's being taught is actually being very, very outdated already. So I think a lot of other things can be done in that space. 

[00:27:36] Sam Kamani: [00:27:36] That is very cool insight that, yeah. 

[00:27:39] George Padin: [00:27:39] And I wouldn't do a rocket som I'm sorry. Yeah, 

[00:27:42] Sam Kamani: [00:27:42] no more rocket science. 

[00:27:46] George Padin: [00:27:46] I think that was through Charlotte.

[00:27:48] Sam Kamani: [00:27:48] Yeah. More of a, educational startup. In fact, the entrepreneur or the founder I interviewed yesterday in Memphis, Tennessee is building something very cool in the whole education space and yeah. So, look for, I mean, yeah, follow, subscribe to the podcast. You'll you'll get to listen to his,

[00:28:12] George Padin: [00:28:12] I would subscribe to that podcast. 

[00:28:16] Sam Kamani: [00:28:16] Listen to it on the show next week. Yeah, I'll upload it next week. So, yeah, so, no, it was great talking with you, George. If someone wants to get in contact with you for, for anything, how should they do that? Should they just connect with you on LinkedIn or 

[00:28:32] George Padin: [00:28:32] I think, yeah, you could visit our websites.

[00:28:35] So I think there, you can see like some of the cool stuff that we've worked on as well. it's abstract that BH, abstract. A B you know, the spelling. 

[00:28:45] Sam Kamani: [00:28:45] Yeah. I will put the links in the description, everywhere, wherever this podcast, this video audio goes. So I'll, I'll put all the links to George's details there.

[00:28:57] George Padin: [00:28:57] Okay, good. I haven't, I haven't. They gotten involved. Nope. Nope. Nope.

[00:29:05] Sam Kamani: [00:29:05] That's that's all good. I'll put a filter. Don't worry. Just kidding.

[00:29:15] Just kidding. It's good. It's always good to have a chat with you.